tweaks to the verandah

To make sure we avoided making any clanging mistakes, I asked Eric for his thoughts about the verandah design. He liked it except was a bit wary of the raised up bit over the front door and suggested a revision:

"I think that the verandah gable might clash with the house gable. How about adding some extra detail to highlight the entry, but locating in under the verandah and at a smaller scale. One idea to consider is the location of the viewer and where their eye will be filled with the view. In the sketch below, from a distance the dominant form would be the house gable. From closer, the house gable would disappear outside of the "cone of vision" of the eye, and the detail right around the entry would take over. You see this in a lot of classical architecture. St Paul's cathedral, for example. The dome, the main gable, and the detail around the door all dominate the view depending on where you are. A long way from St Paul's to Amherst, but the principle remains. Well, there is another idea to ponder. Let me know what you decide."



We talked about it quite a lot with Dad, as he really liked the idea of the gable. But both Dave and I can see Eric's point. So, we've decided to go back to the original with no gable. Wait and see if the lack of light is actually a problem before we bother with solutions for it! Now we've got rid of the verandah at the back end of the house & there's just a small canopy over the door, a lot more light will come through from that end than when there was a full verandah, so there's a good chance it'll be OK.

More on the cottage verandah

We'd previously promised Dad we'd get back to him with more details on the verandah post design for the old house, aka the cottage, and an idea for the gable.

Here is what we came up with, in Dave's words.


Here's a sketch of the front door side (East):




It shows the use of a gable over the front door area. Not really sure what pitch the roof of the gable is to be, but it needs to stick up a little bit. There is a little canopy over the bedroom window but no verandah. Also you can see from this sketch that, if possible, Lyn doesn't want a bannister in the section in front of the lounge window. (If that means we have to get creative and add an extra long 'step' or something to meet requirements of minimum drop, so be it, but Lyn is keen that there is at least a small section of verandah she can sit on the edge of and look out with unimpeded view).

This next picture is a rough sketch showing the front door and gable/verandah in closer view. You'll see the verandah posts have big pillars at their bottom... more on this later.




Now look at this next picture which shows the side view of the house (North).



You can see the arrangement with the steps leading directly opposite the french doors. There are thick (pillared bottomed), and thin verandah posts. More on that later. Note the roofline matches at each end.

Now look at this picture which shows the back of the house (West).



Note that the steps now come out sideways, with the house on one side, rather than straight out the back. As there is no verandah here, we have put sunshades over windows, and also a small canopy over the back door/laundry door.

A closer-up view of the backdoor canopy is shown in this next picture. Note that there is no pillar to hold it up, it is supported by being joined on two sides to the building.




This next picture gives the overall view as to where the steps are, and which way they go, plus where 'big' and little' pillars go.



All the posts are roughly in the location Lyn wants them. May need to be some final adjustments here and there, but the principle is that even though they are not symmetrical in terms of precise measurements between posts, they appear nice to the eye because they're balanced & in line with other features. Most importantly, there are no pillars in front of doors and windows.

Finally, look at the pictures of the pillars that we mocked up in SketchUp. These show the styling of big pillars Lyn would like to have.



Each has the fat bottom part and then 3 smaller pillars up, then topped with some kind of 'fat' section to finish it off. The thin pillars are just a single pillar of size like the posts you used before, topped with the same 'fat' section. The idea is to have these 'fat sections' at the top of all posts that serve to tie it all together, and thus avoid the need to have a freize.

We aren't sure how to make the pillars, but think of californian bungalow type except square not tapered. I think they are probably not the norm for Australia but they seem to be like a kind of verandah posts that the house would have probably had were it built in America during that period. (So long as it looks good together and is consistent in terms of broad heritage, Lyn doesn't mind if it is American rather than Australian influenced!)

The fat bottom bit (large squarish box) are usually brick I think, but does that make it impossible to build because of height from floor to ground? If so, perhaps we could get creative in terms of building them hollow and putting cladding on or something. We aren't sure yet what the pillars would be covered with, ultimately... Lyn is toying with the idea of weatherboards, or, if they are brick, then rendering ala california bungalow style.

In terms of the smaller posts, we aren't sure as yet regarding degree of decoration, but they'd need an edge routing. Something we can sort out perhaps when we see a set of edging patterns.

Dad's ideas for verandah

Dad emailed a few days ago with some more ideas for the verandah. Here's extracts from the email, along with Dave's replies in blue:

Dad said...

I've been reading a book at the place where I work at night. It is a series published by the Australian National Trust, and this book is a two volume set called Äustralian Homesteads". The approach we take to building the verandah will be greatly affected by the ultimate design we decide on. So I photocopied some images to help in discussion.

First is the image of Gidleigh, NSW, which is in it's main house very like your house, in terms of roof and size and with a setback for the lounge portion of the house creating the interesting prospect for the entranceway and veranda.



Your house was built as a terrace house, but is now placed in a large space without the confines originally placed on it so it needs to be rounded out to look comfortable. Your idea of the L-shaped veranda, even going only partway down the side of the house facing the lake would achieve this and would be more harmonious with the new house when built ultimately.

The second image is of the cottage veranda floor. This is included as you sent some images of this alternative as demonstrated by a house in Queensland.



If we used this approach I would be costing it first, using 6x1 OB unseasoned hardwood unless you have another idea for planking, and allowing that it would have gaps between the boards once airdried. I used this flooring type on the house veranda I built at Healesville. It was cheap, and very good as it did not hold water on the floor when water was swept in by the wind. It also allowed me to do the less expensive framing approach, eliminating a complete row of stumps and bearers. Costing this approach and considering it is something I would suggest for now before we go further in discussions of labour.


Dave replied: "We like the floorboard style you suggest and will probably use that in parts of the verandah on the 'new house'. We almost got to the point of thinking to have that for the old house too, but then Lyn became concerned that it might not be in keeping with the original style of the old house... that it might clash stylistically with the level of detailing on the window frames and patterning on the top. So, at present, we've come back to favouring the T & G floor"


In this next image, I want to encourage you to seek the frieze pattern for both houses if you think making this old house harmonious with the new house is important.



I do not think the old house needs to be as nice as the new. Treat it as the "cottage"it is and you will come close to my concept of it in the scheme of the whole project.

Dave replied: In terms of the frieze, we are not sure yet what we will do, but agree that it would be an important feature for helping tie the houses together. Depending on how the sketch of the new verandah posts for the old house goes, it may be that we can manage without a frieze on that, but we will see.

We understand where you are coming from here when you say that the old house does not need to be as nice as the new. But, we want to restore and 'improve' the old house, being sympathetic to its style. The things we do to it externally and internally need to reflect that. If we wanted to be minising costs, we'd put up fake brickwork on the outside, for example. Lyn calls it a cottage because of its size. The old house isn't possibly going to be as nice as the new one, and will certainly be a lot smaller, but it doesn't mean it's not going to be nice. Lyn suggests it's perhaps better to think of it as a whimsical cousin rather than a lowly cottage.


Bear in mind that the roof material used can make a significant impact on the design of posts and roof framing. This example is with a slate roof, and so is necessarily of more robust construction. You can use a much lighter approach if you chose to leave out the ceiling. But if you ultimately want the lining of the ceiling the framing of the veranda needs to accomodate this so adding it at a later date is possible.

Dave replied: Agree about building the framing to accommodate a ceiling, but it is something we can do at a later date, unless we spot material to do it in the meantimea a bargain basement price. Ultimately we do definitely plan to line ceiling, but that particular job can be put off til we move there. Lyn wants there to be enough beams in the frame to hang hanging baskets off.


The next image is of an entrance which I thought was able to give you some ideas for the entrance to your house.



This was chosen by the architect to achieve some very good objectives:
1. It makes a statement about the house.
2. It is a gable which lifts the roof above the doorway and permits massive amounts of light to enter the passage without being obvious about it like a skylight or clear sheeting in the roof does.
3. It is in keeping with the period of the house.

I don't like the portico posts but for this house of brick it works. Certainly not on your house. But a veranda post configuration such as this could help with your desire to get the light into the passage, and if made to be like all the other posts of the veranda, but with a difference that makes it stand out a bit, you could achieve such a good effect as this entrance achieves.

Dave replied: We're having a play with verandah post configuration now. The gabled bit is nice, but it's too grand we think for the old house. We have another idea though that we will include in the sketch, as we like the principle of allowing light in without being so obvious about it.


The next image is to show you how I had planned to embellish the square posts I bought for the deck. I would work the centre part with the router and plane, and add the moldings which give it character and dress. The skirting around the post at the bottom is likewise an embellishment which can be added later.



I like the square posts for the veranda rather than the round look of the turned posts. And they are a fraction of the cost for expenditure right now. Embellishment could be done later when the style is decided and the frieze is decided. All things you and Dave could do in free time as well, given that you can wait for such things and save these sort of jobs for yourself. Getting the moldings is easy, and using the tools easy too.

If you want turned posts, these need to be done before being put in place, however, and do not lend themselves to embellishment at a later date so readily as a decision of how low to keep the unworked part of the post to accomodate the frieze must be made before placing the post in situ.

We replied: In terms of the verandah post shape. Lyn likes turned posts but is worried they may not fit well with the balustrading. So, we are in the process of designing some 'square' post scenarios that Lyn is comfortable with, and I'll try to finish those and get em to you this weekend.

We've also been experimenting with some ideas about the animal protection bit under the floor level on the verandah. We saw a picture of one that was recessed back a set of stumps, to allow shaded space for garden and/or for animals to rest. We think this is a good idea to try on at least part of the house.


Finally, this next image is to give you some idea of the roof structure of the hobbithouse I plan to build.



I will have a veranda on it of course, and it will be built in a crescent shape following the hill it is carved into, but the roof structure will be quite distinctive and time-consuming. The whole will be quite unseen from your house or the roadway, but will be a pleasant surprise to discover when walking. I will obtain a permit for the structure first as I want it to be a building you can use as a bed and breakfast. But at present it is my dream on paper and in my mind. By getting the permit, I can proceed in a sensible sequence with my foundations and Treebeard and his Entwives which will be posts to support the whole of the structure. (NB: Treebeard and his Entwives are Dad's names for the big tree trunks from the trees taken out at Mum's house).

Dave replied: It'll be great when it's done! It is very interesting, I bet there won't be another house like it in all of Victoria!

Cottage verandah quote

We're picking up again on plans for the old house, aka the 'cottage'.

To help give us more clarity in the decision over what type of verandah, and how big, to install Dad roughed out a quote for doing a 3m area which I then put into a spreadsheet.

Basically, for the 3m area it comes out to near enough to $1800 if you include all the fittings like fancy fretwork and railing; or $1100 without.

Now we have a proper understanding of the materials cost, we've decided to make a little cutback on the verandah area. Now, except for a landing type area near the backdoor and laundry, we're not going to put verandah on the back side of the
house. Instead it will be L shaped, running along the side facing the dam, and partially across the front.



By our calculations, using the scale on the plans, this smaller area is 17 square metres. So, as a rough estimate, the cost would be (17 divided by 3 =) 5.67 times the cost of the 3m section. So, materials cost around $11000 in total, but dropping to around $7000 if we delayed on investing in frieze, fancy balustrade, etc.

This is still a sizeable chunk, but it'll be a worthwhile I think. I don't think we can reasonably cut out any more verandah area without it looking stupid or feeling cramped. I imagine we'll live on that verandah a lot of the time. :-)